America: The Tract of Land Between The West Coast and New York City
If someone were to ask me what got me interested in politics and the workings of America, I don’t know if I could exactly pinpoint the cause. I’ve had some people tell me I’m weird, which may be true, because I really do ingest an unhealthy amount of news in a day. But, I figure that makes more sense than babbling on and on about who might win American Idol. Besides, I’m fairly certain that show is fixed, so I really have no interest in it. If I want to watch fixed competition, I’ll watch WWE, because I know WWE is fixed, and WWE makes no effort to hide the fact that it’s fixed. Wow. Think about what I just inferred. WWE is a compass for honest television programming in America.
Oops. Sidetracked. I’ll get back on schedule, here:
Anyway, decent discourse is tough to find these days. I think that’s the point. And the scary part is that these American Idol bubble people? They vote. Personally, I’m really starting to think there should be some kind of test administered before you’re allowed to vote. It’s easy to sit back and blame the politicians when you aren’t even engaged, or have no clue how this system was built or actually works.
As far as I can tell, America is now the huge tract of land between the west coast and New York City. Venture outside those boundaries, and you’re in the land of fruits and nuts. Where things aren’t seen as they are, but as each individual person thinks they ought to be.
Case in point, I’ve been hob-knobbing with the Silicon Valley crowd a lot lately, because well, I’m contractually obligated to do so. As some of you may know, many people out there don’t have a clue about our political system, or the underpinnings of America, yet some choose to engage me. I haven’t decided whether this is laughable or sad.
One person in particular who likes to get in over his head with me is Robert Scoble. Former Microsoft employee, who became famous for his blog, http://www.scobleizer.com and now makes his living evangelizing for whatever product he can get his hands on.
Just to clarify, I think that’s great. Robert is a nice enough guy, and good on him for getting paid and not actually having to do anything too deep. But, there is something about the culture in which he exists that just turns otherwise intelligent people’s brains into mush.
Anyway, it all started just the other day when Scoble made the following offhanded comment to his buddy, Dave “There’s a Comcast truck outside my house” Winer, via Twitter. Incidentally, Winer supports Obama. So, when you take into account that Obama is a doofus, and Winer is a full fledged hard core Obamunist, that makes him a doofus, too. And if memory serves, Scoble supported Edwards. The mind reels. So, essentially, what we have here is Scoble and Winer discussing politics, which is equivalent to placing two brand new Furbys face-to-face and turning them on. Something ridiculous is bound to happen.
(It should be noted that while the conversation began on Twitter, it expanded onto friendfeed. I have removed some of the extraneous comments from third parties for the sake of brevity. However no comments have been edited or removed which would change the context of the discussion. Each comment below is verbatim):
Robert Scoble: It’s interesting. Everyone that I talk with (even hardened Republicans) are looking forward to next year.
(I couldn’t let this go. Robert was recently in Washington DC, and that is outside of the boundary between the west coast and New York City which I spoke of earlier. There are no geniune Republicans left in DC. They are all freaks.)
Art Lindsey: That depends on what you mean by hardened. Most of the true GOP base, like me, aren’t happy at all. We don’t Like McCain.
Robert Scoble: Well, the Repubs I met are ready for a new administration. The old one just is totally calcified and is hard to get anything done. The Dems? Are salivating. Listen to @timryan’s interview yesterday that I did with him.
Mark “Rizzn” Hopkins: I’m in that cat., too. libertarian/conservative disgusted with the lefts, rights and middles.
Robert Scoble: Mark, you should listen to my interview with Culberson yesterday. At one point I looked him in the eye and asked him “is there really room in the Republican party for someone like you anymore?” (He has voted no against a ton of Bush proposals and says he’s a Jeffersonian Republican). He really was a thrilling guy for me to meet. If all Republicans were like him and they kicked out the religious folks I’d switch back to being a Republican in a heartbeat.
Art Lindsey: Those “religious” folk you want to see removed? They (We) are the heart and soul of the GOP. The very moral compass that makes up the movement. Kick out the religious folks? Do You understand that America is a nation founded on religious freedom, and a Christian country at that? You’re pining to see a swatch torn from the very fabric of America. You haven’t a clue what you are saying.
Robert Scoble: Art, I know this is very deep in our fabric. I was a conservative evangelical Christian for more than a decade. But that’s probably why I am so turned off on seeing that side of our world running things. Keep your religion where it belongs: in your church. Our founding fathers knew the corrosive effects of when religion mixes into our public policy. Note your words: “religious freedom.” So, when a single party wants to cram their religious beliefs down my throat, you should expect some pushback!
Mark “Rizzn” Hopkins: Art is right. In terms of the Republican party, they make up the largest base constituency. Without them, there wouldn’t be much of a party - or at least not enough to get elected.
Robert Scoble: Sometimes I wonder whether people even understand what the word “freedom” really means. It means I’m free to do what I want. Including pick a religion (or no religion at all) that is different from yours. Yet many religious folks want to push their beliefs on me. That translates into horrible legislation against stem cell research, for instance. My wife moved here from Iran for a reason: religious persecution. So don’t lecture me on freedom. I’m very clear on the concept. Mark, yeah, I understand that Republicans rely on the religion machine that exists in this country. I saw it up front and center (I used to run a TV camera at our church and we’d have lots of political types come through to talk with our congregation). It’s just a real corrosive thing that I’ll fight the rest of my life. Republicans have turned off a lot of voters who used to support them because of their fiscally conservative approach. Reagan proved there’s a lot of voters like that out there.
Art Lindsey: Well, if you understand your wife, (which I get, and I admire her for escaping) how come you’re so off-put by christians? Has one chopped off a relative’s head lately or fed one of your children to to you? It seems like you’re trying to make a comparison to me between strict Islam and christianity. More than that though, it seems to be that your idea of “religious freedom” is the complete absence of any religion at all.
Robert Scoble: I’m off put by any religious types who get power and try to use their religion against my choices. I’m no longer a Christian. Yet many of the policies that you and your friends push on Congress force me to follow your policies. From the money we print “In God we Trust.” Um, no, no, I don’t. That’s not “freedom” to choose. It’s forced religion. I’m tired of it and will vote against it.
Art Lindsey: “In God we trust” is not forced religion, Robert. The important thing to remember is that God is NOT religion. God is *FAITH*. You need to understand the differences between the two.
Robert Scoble: Art, um, so, now you point out that I don’t have “freedom of Faith.” Got it. I think that’s a pretty nuanced point. For most people religion and faith are intertwined. Certainly they are for all the religious types I used to hang out with.
Mark “Rizzn” Hopkins: Robert, agnostic and atheist philosophers and scientists like to talk about how ethics and morals are far removed from religion in their origins, but recorded human history isn’t that old that you can’t trace back modern legal precedent to it’s Judeo-Christian origins. In that, we are a Christian nation - that was the basis of the theories of our foundation. Were those theories perfect? No, but they are there.
Robert Scoble: Mark, I’m tired of being defined by history. We don’t practice slavery anymore, even though many of our Founding Fathers used to believe in that, too. At some point we’ve gotta break with the past and realize there’s a better way to live our lives.
Mark “Rizzn” Hopkins: And just generally, I’d like to also state that Christians (nor any religion found in America) aren’t hive-minded. Much of the time, the beltway (when they work to appease the “moral majority”) ascribe to us beliefs that they think we’ll like, and we get branded with that ideal. You can’t blame religion for political pandering. I prefer to blame the panderers.
Robert Scoble: “the Republican Party would be better without them, and he would go back if they went away.” ANSWER: No, you misrepresent my position. I don’t care what you do in your church or what political party you’re a part of. As long as you keep your religion in your church and away from our laws and public discourse. I believe in a strong separation of church and state and will vote against anyone who tries to bring their church into politics. I’ll probably lose, cause many people like their religion…. (FRIENDFEED GAP) politics joined, but I’ve seen the corrosive effects that letting religious thought control our legal system has on everything. Our lack of investment in science is an awesome example of this. I’m probably more adverse to it than most people, because of where my wife came from and where my family came from (my mom grew up in Nazi Germany where her family wasn’t free to worship who they wanted).
(I didn’t catch it at the time, but apparently Robert is fine with God and religion as long as it stays out of the public discourse. So much for freedom of religion, or better yet, freedom of speech. Oh well, that is probably what his idea of “separation of church and state” means. Actually, a lot of people think that’s what it is, and they are wrong. Moreover, somebody tell me what exactly religion controls in our system? Anybody notice how in the gutter our culture is lately?)
Mark “Rizzn” Hopkins: Robert, I realize you have a strong position, and I’m not trying to convert you. As strongly as you believe that politicians should be heavily involved with the evo of tech and Web 2.0, you must realize that strongly
Robert Scoble: “you must realize that strongly
(I wonder if Robert realizes the secular left IS the ruling majority. Probably not.)
Art Lindsey: No, Robert. You are wrong again. Democracy was not built to stick up for the little guy. Democracy is so that all have opportunity, and in event of disputes, that those in the right may prevail. When asked if he would “stick up for the little guy” John Roberts said (Paraphrase) “It is not my job to stick up for the little guy. I am to interpret the constitution and decide who is right” (Roberts was overwhelmingly confirmed as Chief Justice of the United States.)
Robert Scoble: Art, our system of government is NOT a democracy. It’s a republic. And, anyway, our system has checks and balances which, in effect, does protect the little guy from being overrun by the masses.
Art Lindsey: Okay Robert, now you’re just being a tool. I know this is a republic. You mentioned the word democracy, and I was using it in the same context you were, and now you’re pulling this garbage because I’ve beaten you soundly at every turn. Your attempt to change context midstream is pathetic. And again, regardless of the word you choose, we were not built to coddle a certain social class. We were built so ALL have the right to work and achieve. Stop, for your own sake. You are embarrassing yourself.
Yep. Suffrage Aptitude Tests. Not a bad idea. Yeah, it sounds a bit draconian, I agree, but I haven’t seen a better idea, and America’s future is serious business. The real scary part is that there are more people like Robert Scoble than not.
Popularity: 41% [?]
August 4th, 2008 at 15:04
Scoble is a phony. He adopts the attitude of those surrounding him in order to survive. He’s the type of guy who thinks voting Republican and going to church on Sunday makes a person an “evangelical Christian.” Funny thing is that people like R. Scoble don’t want to remove religion from this country. They just want to remove the Christian religion.